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Revision 1 as of 2012-06-17 21:45:56
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Editor: LordTothe
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Revision 4 as of 2012-06-20 02:42:39
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Editor: LordTothe
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Illegal immigrants are criminals! Their presence in this country is a crime. They are stealing our jobs, smuggling contraband, and using our tax dollars in government services! "Illegal immigrants are criminals! Their presence in this country is a crime. They are stealing our jobs, smuggling contraband, and using our tax dollars in government services!"
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'''Response:''' '''Response:''' [[StatistFallacies/PublicProperty|"State" property]] is a fiction. Being on the "wrong" side of a state-declared "border" is not rational or moral justification for harming someone. Since the state rightly owns nothing, there is no crime in crossing a border without gang permission; the only people that need be consulted are the owners of the property a traveler crosses. If a farmer wants someone to work for him on his land, and they find a place to stay (bought, rented, or borrowed), it is nobody else's business. His [[Books/WhatIsAJob|job is a contract between two people]]. If a third party coerces people who create a non-coercive contract he does not like, he is committing a crime. The people making the agreement are not criminals. Likewise, people engaging in noncoercive trade in goods forbidden by the state are not committing any crime.
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The state is a fiction. It doesn't exist. See also: [[PublicProperty]]. Crimes require a perpetrator and a victim. Since the state is a fiction, and public property does not exist, there is no crime in "trespassing" and no victim of the non-crime.

A job is a contract between two people. If a third party claims the right to coerce people who create a non-coercive contract he does not like, he is committing a crime. The people making the agreement are not criminals.

Trade is also a form of non-coercive human interaction. If a third party claims the right to coerce people who engage in non-coercive voluntary trade he does not like, he is committing a crime. Any time someone uses coercive force to restrict trade, black markets supply the demand. Black market violence and coercion are natural consequences of coercive trade restrictions. If you advocate prohibitions, you advocate the violence to enforce it and the violence that the black markets tend to encourage.

All government services are funded by extortion, and the last objection presumes the extortion-funded services are legitimate. Arguing that everyone should suffer equally is ignoring the criminal extortion. Arguing that some people should be excluded from services based on geography is playing the extortionist's game and justifying the crime. ([[LordTothe|LT]])
All government services are funded by extortion, and the last objection presumes the extortion-funded services are legitimate. Arguing that everyone should suffer equally is ignoring the criminal extortion. Arguing that some people should be excluded from services based on geography is playing the extortionist's game and justifying the crime. ([[LordTothe|LT]], [[DBR]])

Fallacy:

"Illegal immigrants are criminals! Their presence in this country is a crime. They are stealing our jobs, smuggling contraband, and using our tax dollars in government services!"

Response: "State" property is a fiction. Being on the "wrong" side of a state-declared "border" is not rational or moral justification for harming someone. Since the state rightly owns nothing, there is no crime in crossing a border without gang permission; the only people that need be consulted are the owners of the property a traveler crosses. If a farmer wants someone to work for him on his land, and they find a place to stay (bought, rented, or borrowed), it is nobody else's business. His job is a contract between two people. If a third party coerces people who create a non-coercive contract he does not like, he is committing a crime. The people making the agreement are not criminals. Likewise, people engaging in noncoercive trade in goods forbidden by the state are not committing any crime.

All government services are funded by extortion, and the last objection presumes the extortion-funded services are legitimate. Arguing that everyone should suffer equally is ignoring the criminal extortion. Arguing that some people should be excluded from services based on geography is playing the extortionist's game and justifying the crime. (LT, DBR)